Recently, I was in an internet discussion about Jewish existence in the Judea area of the Middle East. The discussion revealed deep seated errors in popular thinking as well as a clear AntiSemetic slant. I am posting the conversations below in entirety (minus any vulgarity).
This thread was in reply to the Reuters article Israel’s ex-security chief says Netanyahu wavering and weak:
Stephen Paul West • 2 days 23 hrs ago
Most of the world will ask permission to exterminate the Jewish people. It is up to the Jewish people to decide ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to the polite and sinister requests.
There are no ‘hardline’ Jewish leaders. There are simply Jewish leaders who refuse to be killed by angry, bigoted and savage anti-Semites. Or, Jewish leaders stupidly allowing their own people to be setup for destruction.
Historical example: The Warsaw Ghetto saw 400,000 Jewish people ‘politely’ stuffed into a Ghetto. It saw only 2,000 fight. Modern Example: Israel wavering at first, and then not surrendering the Golan Heights. Israel must hold those Heights to protect itself from easy missile and artillary attacks from Syria.
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@Kevin. Israel would be very happy just being a trade nation. Not a thing I said is an excuse, but rather historical facts.
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First, any settlement land was/is compensated financially. In other words, purchased from private Arab land-owners. Those Arab landowners generally had no other claim to the land, but their opinion that all ‘Muslim Lands’ are sacred. So, it was purchased land, from people who took it over in war from the previous occupants (mostly Jewish anyway).
Secondly, the land is a direct resultant of attacks on Israel (most generally the Six Day War), and the enemy used those lands as staging grounds for attacks. It wasonly belligerant on part of the Jihadists. It is self protection on the part of Israel.
Third, the settlements offered a sincere part of peaceful intergration between people. By drawing lines between Muslim and everybody else (no just the Jewish people), the Arab world perpetuates hate, bigotry and exclusion.
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You do know that Israel started the six day war with an unprovoked strike on Ehyptian airfields, right?
As for purchased land…..nice try.
It was purchased (or already ‘public lands’ even under the Ottoman empire).Check out your history. How does the Arab community have any more claim to the land because the Ottomans ceded 100 years earlier to them, then the Jewish community who were there for 2,500 years?
To clarify: You mean the Egyptian airfields and forces that Nasser was massing on the Sinai border to exterminate the Jewish people? You mean that Six Day War? because I don’t want to get it confused with the fantasy Six Day War as you propose.
Throughout history agressors have always attempted to validate their actions under the guise of self defense. Hitler in 1939 for example. The fact remains, the Israelies attacked first, unprovoked. Ever for a second wonder why the Egyptians were taken by suprise if they were on a war footing about to invade?
Your past Israeli land ownership argument holds no water, ask the Cherokee or Souix. The fact is they are seizing the land from current owners illegally.
The Arabs have no more right to the land they claim than the Jewish. It was never illegal, and attempts by Israel to pony-up to the demands of the Internation Law community has simply resulted in the ‘rules’ changing. The articles quoted in modern ‘illegal’ claims refrence the ‘forced relocation of occupying citizens’. The settlements are far from forced. They are volutary. The ‘occupied’ lands were never titled to anybody. The Ottoman empire had no validity about these lands. Who owned it first? The Jewsih people.
The Egyptians massed planes, men and tanks on the Sinai border against established agreements. Nasser was just a shoddy leader. Just like the Palastinians have launched over 10000 missiles and 4000 mortar into Israel in the last decade most of them during ‘peace’ and ‘truce’ agreements.
A proxy war against the Jewsih people is still a proxy war.
SpeakUP • 1day 21 hrs ago
The Arabs have a right. Every Jewish historian acknowledges that. Arabs are semitic people, whose language is a cross between Aramaic and Hebrew. They conquered Palestine from Romans in the 7th century, opened the door for Jews to re-enter Palestine, and they (Jews, christians, and muslims) have lived in Palestine since the last 1400 years (minus the brief crusader rule). Most Palestinians of today are called Arabs, because they speak Arabic, but their heritage is Arabic, crusader descendants, Philistinian, and Pilgrims descendent who settled there. If you pay attention to their last names, you find many that are Germanic sounding.
On the other hand, the present day Askhenazi Jews, right to Palestine is very debatable. Ashkenazis are NOT semitic people, descendents of King Shem of Africa. They are descendent of Ashkenazim, the grandson of Japhat, the white son of Noah. The Ashkenazi claim Israel to be their God-given right, and not their birth right. The irony in this whole saga is that Jews have ALWAYS been free to migrate to Palestine.
Nobody ever stopped them. There was no reason to create a Jewish state. This state will never be able to protect Jews, or unite Jews, nor can it stay Jews.
The majority of Jews live outside Israel, preferring to love it from a distance, and the embargo policies of Israeli state ensure that majority of Arabs stay trapped in Israeli colonies. Christians don’t get it that a Jewish-ruled state does not and will not ensure the return of #Jews. The Arab Jews are always Arabs first, and Askenazi Jews are always European first. Every western Jew holds a second passport of a western country.
Let’s assume there was never a Hitler in Europe, but let’s assume there was one in Arab world . Let’s say an Arab Hitler had killed 6 million Afro-Arab j-ws, ( a genocide that never happened as Judaism and Islam are so similar to each other, than either is to Christianity), would you still support Israel? More important, would European J-ws migrate to an Afro-Arab J-wish country? I assure you, the day you get peace between Israel and Arabs, you also see very rapid fall of Israel. Arab J-ws will migrate out to other Arab countries where they have lived for over thousand years (note, they have been free to live in Palestine, but chose to live in Damascus, Kufa, Baghdad, Morrocoa, Constantinople, Tehran….) and the Western J-ws will go West. Israel has no choice but to stay Western dominated (to ensure US AID), and stay at war, in order to survive.
Stephen Paul West • 1 day 20 hrs ago
@Speakup. I would like to wish the world so much peace people might live where-ever they wish. However, the citizens of Israel only wish to trade, build and live peacefully. The death threats are clearly Jihadist. The constant friction and hate is clearly Jihadist. I support Israel because they don’t vow to ‘push the Arabs into the sea and kill them all.’ Or, as the current Hamas leader in the Gaza strip proudly claims: “I dream of hanging a huge map of the world on the wall at my Gaza home which does not show Israel on it.”
Also, this constant blame of the ‘Western Domination’ is so lame as to be cowardly. Again, America would love to just travel, take pictures, trade and live peacably. The Muslim religion forbids friendship with ‘infidels’ and also says all unbelievers must be killed, or made to pay a Jizya (a tax to Muslims for the sin of unbelief.)
You are incorrect when you say J-ws have lived in Palestine for 2500 years. They were kicked out by Romans, and renamed the later Palestine (roman for Philistine) . Later when Rome became Christian, the Christians kept the ban on J-ws from entering Jerusalem. It was only after Arabs defeated the Romans and conquered Jerusalem, Omar ibn al-khattab (he build the mosque with golden dome) opened the door for J-ws to enter Jerusalem. Many J-ws saw him as the Messiah because of the belief that they will no enter the promised land till the return of Messiah, and he will take them to the promised land. The J-ws have lived in Palestine since the last 1400 years (again minus the brief Christian crusader rule was brief and bloody and every #$%$ and Muslim and also native Christians was killed). You can read Arab history by any, I repeat ANY, western or Zionist historian. All agree to these facts.
Stephen Paul West • 1 min 51 secs ago
@speakup. What are you talking about? King David was J-wish. He lived in Israel around 1040BCE. That’s easily 3000+ years of J-wish people living in Judea. The J-wish people have always been persecuted and dispersed to other lands. (Babelonians, Romans, Christians, Muslims, etc)
However, there most certainly was/is always been J-wish people living in Israel.Judea has distinctive cultural roots to the J-wish people. Not the Muslims, who took it by sword. Mecca and Medina for the Muslims. Jereusalem for the J-wish.
The question of modern Israel greatly transcends a discussion of religion. The Jihadist will kill everybody in Israel without regard to religion, but rather citizenry. This is why Palistinians are so dead-set against integration with the modern Israeli society. The Muslim Imams are filled with hate, and wish only for war, so by keeping segregation alive, they keep the nexus of hate alive.